For guitarist and songwriter Mike Baggetta, mssv is as much about discovery as it is about composition. With On And On (out March 7), the third album from his power trio with bassist Mike Watt (MINUTEMEN, fIREHOSE, The Stooges) and drummer Stephen Hodges (Tom Waits, Mavis Staples, David Lynch), the band once again took an immersive approach: writing new material, then testing and reshaping it through a relentless run of back-to-back shows before recording. Their fall 2023 tour—58 performances in quick succession—allowed the songs to shift organically, absorbing the energy of the road and the instinctive interplay between the three musicians.
On And On stands apart from previous releases in that Baggetta has taken on an expanded role as a singer and lyricist. He’s been encouraged to do so by his bandmates, and ultimately, seven of the eight songs feature his vocals.
With another 52-show tour ahead and new material already emerging on stage, mssv remains in constant motion. Over a Zoom interview, Baggetta discussed On And On and the future of mssv.
It’s interesting that you wrote the material for the album and then did an extensive tour before recording it. Could you talk about that process?
Mike Baggetta: The music on the record is interesting because we record after we do a tour. So this new album, On and On, we did a tour in the fall of 2023— the Aki Tour 2023— which I think was about 58 shows. And so before we do the tour, we do some band practice, of course, because we’ve got to learn the songs and we’ve got to relearn the old songs and stuff. And so I write a new set of music so that we’re using all these gigs kind of— not as practice in front of people, but yeah, practice in front of people— to get the music ready to record at the end of the tour. So when the tour is over, the next day after that, we’re just recording the album right away without any downtime. But what happens in that process is the music changes in ways that I could have never imagined when I was coming up with the songs.
And that’s what I really like about having a band, and that’s what I really like about music— when people bring something else to the music that you could never come up with, just by the fact that you’re not them and they’re not you, right? People have different ideas, and it can change the music in really interesting and mysterious ways for me. And I really love that because I think I can write something and know what it’s going to be, but when I bring it to someone else and they interpret it in their own way and put something back into the music, that’s the most exciting to me. So some of the songs on the record sound totally different than they did at the beginning of the tour when we first learned them. That’s the best part about it.
Are there particular things that you feel this group of musicians brings to your songwriting?
Mike Baggetta: Yeah, one big thing for sure is the relationship between the bass and the drums together in the band, because I’m not a bass player and I’m not a drummer, really. I mean, I can fake both things poorly, but I have an understanding of how the drums work and how the bass fills a certain role in music— and not even just bass, but the way that Watt plays bass, which is his own thing too— and how that best relates to the way Hodge plays drums in a song under what I’m playing or what I’m singing.
I’ve gotten to hear these guys so much over the years in this band— on tour, on these records, and on stuff before we even met. Of course, I’ve been listening to them for decades, and so I have kind of a filter in my head like, “Oh, wouldn’t it be cool to hear these guys do this?” That’s how the composition begins— with what I give to them. And then when we get together to practice, they start changing things here and there. “Let’s move this note.” “What if I leave this note out?” “What if you hit the kick drum on this beat so it goes here with my bass note instead of this?” So it’s just these little details that really kind of make the whole thing come together in a really beautiful way. Those are things that I’m always still learning from them, for sure.
Did all the songs that you wrote prior to touring end up on the album? If not, what factors went into selection?
Mike Baggetta: All the songs are on the record. In fact, there’s one we didn’t start with— the one called On Its Face. That was an improvisation we did in the studio. And then I went back and wrote words to add on top of it and sort of added some slide guitar parts and stuff like that.
There’s also a bunch of interludes on the vinyl version of the record— these little pieces that join the other songs together. So each side is one long track. Those were also improvised, but those were kind of interesting because I asked [CHECK/] Watt and Hodges [CHECK/] separately to just play solo, improvise solo for half an hour based on some of the themes of the music of the album. And then when I got home after the session was done, I listened to all these solo parts and I started thinking like, “Oh, this could go with that.” And I started chopping them up and putting them together, and then I wrote new guitar parts to go over that.
So those are really interesting to me just because of the way that they were put together. So there are no extra songs that didn’t make it— but in fact, there was a lot of music that we didn’t know was out there that did make it onto the record.
Could you talk more about that aspect, how the vinyl version differs? At what point in the process did you decide to do that?
Mike Baggetta: I guess it came up while we were in the studio. For me, I didn’t really even know what I was going to do with the improvised sections, but I knew that it would be cool to at least have those in case I wanted to use ’em for something. And then I started thinking about it while they were recording their parts, thinking like, “Oh, what if some of this stuff goes together? It could be interesting, like little in-between things.”
But then the idea of the record and the songs— it’s called On and On. It’s kind of about the unending continuity of life and art and music and all these other things. So how can I reflect that in the actual album? Well, I could make it so it’s unending in a way— as much as I can.
I didn’t want to do it on the digital version because— I think my own take is that if you put out a digital album that’s like one 60-minute track or two 30-minute tracks, I don’t know… I don’t have a lot of faith in the current human attention span to actually make it all the way through that without going onto Facebook or doing something else, or doing the dishes and forgetting it’s on or whatever.
So there’s something about the physical album that I feel like— you at least have to go to it. You have to put it down. You have to make a decision. You’re going to turn all this stuff on, you’re going to flip the thing, it’s going to be over in 20 or 25 minutes or whatever. It just seemed to fit that format a little bit better— in a way that I thought more people might successfully be able to experience what I was thinking.
So the digital version is just the songs, without the interludes, because to me it just seems like more of a singles-oriented format these days.
Are there any particular songs that you think really ended up differing in terms of what we hear on the album versus your initial idea?
Mike Baggetta: Well, I think a lot of them have in some ways— whether it’s tempo or dynamics— seemingly little tweaks that make things feel so very different, often. But one for sure is the song called Boat Song. That one actually got way quieter than it ever was.
And I think the demo I had— I forget what I did, if I sang the words into a tape recorder or the microphone was broken or something— it had this kind of funky sound on the vocals, and Watt kept saying, “I really like the sound of the vocals on the demo. You should use those.” But the words weren’t right, and they didn’t fit or something. So I had to re-record it.
And I think what we ended up doing at the studio was taking kind of a cheapo microphone and recording it into a tape machine and then dropping that into the session. But regardless, the way the song evolved through the tour is that it kept getting quieter and quieter and quieter and quieter.
And then there’s a vocal part in the chorus where I almost sing kind of like a falsetto voice. And that kind of popped up halfway through the tour. I don’t really even remember the situation. I think it was maybe that there were some talkers in the crowd, and I was trying to get their attention by doing something quietly that wasn’t screaming to get someone’s attention.
Sometimes if you’re in a loud audience and you’re on stage and some people are listening and some people aren’t, the best thing you can do is get really quiet and make the people talking really self-conscious, like, How come I only hear myself at this show? So it’s kind of a funny thing, but it actually can really benefit the music too, because you’re not in competition with some other sound. You’re doing your own thing, and by bringing the level down, you kind of draw everybody back into it, which is another sort of fascinating psychological thing.
But for those reasons, that song kept getting quieter. And then at one point, I just went into this falsetto vocal thing in the chorus, and we ended up keeping it. I thought it was a really cool thing. So that song started off just louder and maybe even faster. And the whole chorus sounded totally different than it does on the record— but I love the way it ended up. It would’ve never ended up there without doing 58 shows in between.
Could you talk about the role of vocals and lyrics, how it’s changed over the years in this project? It seems like it’s got more of an emphasis now.
Mike Baggetta: Yeah. The first record had no vocals, I think— or no, it had two vocals by Watt: The Eureka Moment and 920 December. And then lockdown happened. We were stuck at home, but we were making seven-inches, recording all our parts separately at home and sending files around and stuff.
I had written some songs, and I sent ‘em to Watt, and I was like, “What do you think about putting some vocals on these?” And he said, “Sure, just let me know what the songs are about so I know what to write.”
And we did a seven-inch called “The Scott Aicher.” He’s a great sort of cartoon artist that made these four panels of these figures. And so I wrote— excuse me— I wrote a fake screenplay. I came up with a story for these four figures in my mind.
Who are these characters, and what are they doing? So I wrote a little screenplay, and then I scored that: “Here’s the music for this scene, here’s the music for this scene.” And so I sent my little story to Watt when he wanted ideas for the lyrics. And when he sent back his vocal track, he had pretty much just recorded the words that I sent him. He tightened it up a little bit here and there to make it fit and stuff.
But as I was listening to it, I was like, “Wait, this is familiar.” And I went back to my notes, and I was like, “This is just what I wrote— but it sounds good.” And so in that moment, I was like, “Oh, okay. I can write words. I can write lyrics for songs.”
I’d never really thought about it. When I was younger, I’d always taken guitar lessons, and I had a guitar teacher once when I was probably 13 or something. I had learned a song, and I wanted to show him. I was like, “Check out what I can do.” And I played the song and I started singing it.
And at the end, I was like, “So what’d you think?” And he goes, “Yeah, the guitar playing was great, but… yeah, maybe no more singing.”
And so for me at that age, I was crushed. Like, “Okay, yeah, I’ll never sing again.”
But I’ve always wanted to. I mean, I love music with words. It’s such a visceral storytelling component throughout the world. So anyway, after I heard that Watt could use my words and it sounded good, I had a lot of confidence about it. And I said, “I bet if I ever am going to try singing again, it could be with these guys.”
So I asked them, “Would you guys mind if I try singing again?” And they were totally supportive— kind of like, “Yeah, we were wondering why you weren’t singing already,” and stuff.
And then being around Watt so much in the van and everything, he was very generous with a lot of information about how to use your voice and different ways he uses his voice, his face, and your diaphragm, and all this stuff. So I learned a lot from him about it.
And of course, Hodges— he’s played drums with some of the greatest vocalists in music of the 20th century, so he really knows how to get in around words and things. And it’s just been a really good experience to relearn how to sing with those guys.
Going back a bit, could you talk a little bit about how this project initially came together? I know you had worked with Mike Watt on your solo album and tour. Could you tell me kind of how this project evolved out of that?
Mike Baggetta: Yeah. The very original way this happened— that MSSV formed— was that me, Watt, and Jim Keltner made a record called Wallflowers in 2017 at my friend Chris Schlarb’s studio in Long Beach, called Big Ego.
And when that record came out in 2019, I wanted to do some shows. I thought I could do a little tour, and Watt was into it, and Jim was into it— except he doesn’t really travel, or at that point he wasn’t really traveling much, so he didn’t want to go on the road, which is totally fair.
And so I was thinking, well, what can we do? Can we just do one show out there in LA, or what? And Watt was still down to do some shows, so I asked him if he thought maybe Stephen Hodges would be into playing drums with us.
And I thought of him because Watt’s record Contemplating the Engine Room is with Hodges on drums and our friend Nels Cline on guitar.
And that album has been a big touchstone for me my whole musical life, ever since I heard it— which was when I was in college, I think 20-something years ago.
And so he said, “I don’t know, call him.” So he gave me his number. I called Hodge, and I met with him, and he was down to try to do some shows.
So I booked 10 shows in 10 days, coast to coast. And about halfway through, I was thinking— obviously Hodge plays differently than Keltner— so wouldn’t it be interesting to write some music for this band now that it’s a different sound, and we’re kind of already finding that five shows in or whatever?
And both those guys were into that idea. Watt came up with the band name. And here we are.
You’re touring soon. Do you again have newer music that you will be performing?
mssv’s On And On: Mike Baggetta on Touring, Collaboration, and Finding a Voice: Yeah, so we’ve got 52 shows, I think, coming up, and yeah, we’ll be touring the music for On and On. We also have another new split seven-inch with our friends Thousand Dollars Movie out of Charlotte, North Carolina, that came out. So we’ll do music off of that, and then I’ll have new music that we’re going to be playing every night also— so that at the end of this tour, we can record that for the next record.
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